That gun debate thing

[Ladywriter 7,783]

So like yeah... I've listened to many opinions looked at a lot of stats and yada yada

No, the hunters I know do not use M16's to hunt deer, but I know a lot of collectors who have things they never take out of their original packaging. Some ppl collect action figures, some ppl collect guns. Some guns are never even loaded let alone fired.

 

Yes, taking something out of circulation reduces the number of guns lawfully owned and obtained out of there, but the black market won't stop selling whatever is banned.

 

I think Chris Rock was onto something with his bullets should cost  $5000 apiece. It's not just guns killing people, its a fuck load of bullets. A gun with no ammo is a club.

 

People always ignore the second word in gun violence. That's too bad because what we really have is a violence problem.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

A gun ban is just a "big government" agenda. We can talk about assault rifles all day but if you go to the FBI's website and look at the numbers, more people are killed by knifes, hammers, and even hands and feet. These individual categories out number ALL rifles put into its own category.

Another interesting note is that from 2008-2011 the number of homicides have gone down. The US ranks 28th in the world in gun violence per capita. What Piers Morgan won't tell you is that in the UK violent crime is 5 times higher per capita than in the US.

Timothy McVeigh single handedly killed more Americans in one event and didn't use a single firearm. You can still buy fertilizer to this day.

People are quick to act on emotion while throwing any kind of logic out of the window... That's why we have the patriot act, that's why the gov can tap your cell with no warrant, and that's why they are trying to restrict guns now. Any freedom we are willing to give up, Uncle Sam will be happy to take it away from you weather it's Democrat or Republican.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

I still think the main issue with violence now-a-days isn't a gun issue. Its a mental health issue. There are so many kids with screwed up heads and the parents have absolutely no right to put these kids in place (child protective will show up at your door and tell you to never lay a hand on your child) or to force them into a mental health program if needed (cops and cps will tell you that you have no right to force your kid into a mental health program unless that child is arrested). And of course the police do not arrest children. Whenever they see them doing something illegal they hold the kids, call the parents, and then think they are doing the parent and kid a favor by just talking to them and not arresting the kid. So what happens is that kid knows he will never be arrested, goes on and does whatever he wants, has CPS bitch at his parents and then when the kid turns 18 and over goes and gets a gun permit because he has no previous incarcerations or red flags for back ground checks because the system let him slide. The real problem in my opinion is not that we have a gun problem, its that we have an "under 18 not being arrested for their crimes" problem.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

Well said. When it comes to Sandy Hook, its overlooked how careless the parent was. You have a mentally disturbed kid, that you had behavioral issues with... why would you even ponder leaving unsecured firearms in your house?! Thats irresponsible on so many levels.

 

The mental health issue is a massive problem in our nation. Sometimes I wonder if all the weird shit you cant even pronounce on the ingredient label of your food has something to do with it. As a younger fellow I don't remember metal health being such a large issue... and I don't believe it was because it wasn't being correctly diagnosed. Don't get me wrong, misdiagnosing someone generically with the "crazies" was indeed an issue up until very recently, but the rise of mental illness and even cancers are linked to the things we consume partially.

Hell, they just linked diet soft drinks to depression...
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/09/nih-study-links-soda-with-depression

[Sledgstone 8,672]

The main reason mental health wasn't as much of an issue back in the day is because pharmaceutical companies didn't have as many drugs as they do now. When I was a kid I had severe anxiety and some social issues. A bit of therapy and I coped with my own problems. If I had these same issues now, I would have been given 3 different medications: anti-anxiety, anti-depressents and anti-social phobia. And then I would be given therapy sessions and then end up on SSI for the rest of my life because of the side effects caused by all these medications and the lack of interest in completing school or getting a job because I would be vegetabled out by the meds.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

This is true... I remember as a child, my visits to the doctor rarely concluded with a Rx. Unless I was very sick and needed penicillin, I was always told to get some rest and drink plenty of fluids... maybe basic Tylenol or Dimetapp was recommended. I guess a doctor would be viewed as lazy or non caring if the said something like that these days. People want bang for their buck and are conditioned to want pills, not advice.

[Pchan 5,162]

Guns shouldn't be allowed, automatic or semi automatic or anything. Let people carry pocket knives if they want. Pulling a trigger could be easier than actually going up to someone who's now alarmed you're coming at them with a sharp object and can retaliate. 

[Sledgstone 8,672]

 

*stabs ppl*

[Kite 3,263]

problem with guns is they are there already, 

It is impossible to pull them from circulation, any one who thinks banning guns would be like banning porn. There is to much of it around to disappear 

 It would be better if they where never there to begin with,

 

What Piers was getting at is if you want a gun ok,  You don't need an assault rifle.

 

A point people made about guns being illegal but still attainable. Guns to my knowledge are not constructed easily, weed on the other hand is, 

If there was no legal factories making guns other then for military purposes, which would be insainly regulated to the point on random finger print testing to check for evil twins, The ability to make guns would be rather difficult. thus very hard to attain, or stupidly priced

 

Most illegal guns are probably made legally

 

A very valid point is guns don't kill people (unless manufactured defectively) people kill people.

 

Guns are build with the single purpose of causing harm, 

 

Knives and fertiliser which can be used easily as weapons and in reality are behind more death then guns, primary purpose is something else

[Ladywriter 7,783]

A lot of folks scream 2nd amendment when it comes to the gun issue and technically speaking a private citizen could have whatever the military had so ppl could unite and have a chance at overthrowing a tyrannical govt. At the time it was possible, now it is not. Period. All the daydreaming and posturing aside, if the US military turned on its people we would be totally screwed. Our military can kill millions of us without ever putting boots on the ground. This cold hard fact gives rise to fear which leads to nutty shit, think conspiracy theory, all of them. Throw in all the religious end times garbage on top of that. Presto, you have a frightened population and this is where the brain takes over.

Fight or flight has been with us perpetually as we've evolved and is present in many species on this planet. A sane fight response to the reality that our military could fucking end us could be something like paying attention to our military budget, weaponry, what they're doing for our troops. A person who protests the militarization of our police force is reacting with a fight response. A fight response by someone more extreme could be anything from hoarding weapons and ammo to blowing up govt buildings. Flight response doesn't mean they pack their shit and move to Canada eh. It means they put the responsibility for their protection in somebody else's hands. They leave keeping them safe from all the scary in the big world up to the (usually awful) politicians they elect. Extremism in politics/relgion rising with advances in technology and equal social integration is not a coincidence, its psychology. Flight response to death manifests itself in religion. The person leaves their salvation, ie the protection of their eternal consciousness/soul up to their clergy, prophet or deity. For some the need to flee reality is so great that they believe they will not die they will be raptured up cuz the end is now. They are so terrified of death they convince themselves it ins't going to happen to them. That's nutbag shit, but they believe it. Oh, and they vote republican in large numbers.

 

These things need to be taken into consideration when we are discussing the mental health of the country. We also need to stop dancing around the subject and call this bullshit out for what it is. We are riding a wave of very public male pattern violence in this country and I don't think we've crested yet. Some neighborhoods are akin to the wild wild west. Dudes start shooting each other at two in the afternoon in Syracuse. I believe we are living through a paradigm shift that will lead to equal human rights and civil protections to every person on the planet. Some cultures will handle this better then other. Patriarchy does not want equality they want control and when they see the loss of control their fight or flight response kicks in. We have primitive humans murdering women to satisfy some twisted delusion of honor they hold on to. We have men in power that actively work to legislate women's bodies, marriage, the definition of rape for crying out loud. The same sore losers that won't sign on to the violence against women act. When half of the population believes that not only are they superior to the other half but they deserve to lord over the other half, we have a fucking problem. I'm not optimistic enough to think this kind of bullshittery is going to disappear, but it is going to have to be reigned in and put in the back seat in a childproof car seat if we want to make it as a fucking species. We can start by not indoctrinating children.                

[Sledgstone 8,672]

The women need to unite and revolt! Down with men!

 

*joins the side of the women*

[Ladywriter 7,783]

Equality is not about putting one side down, its about providing all sides with the same rights and opportunities. Ending patriarchy doesn't mean drag men down, I think it means just the opposite. There are entire countries that regulate half of their population cannot go out in public unattended let alone contribute to the world. If these primitive dickbags educated every child equally they might not be living in mud houses in seismically active zones derp. A human brain is a fantastic resource and we as a species need to utilize our ingenuity and creativity and cognitive reasoning abilities to deal with the problems the climate destabilization is causing. It's not just a sea level rise problem, its water, food, temperature, and the challenges of creating a grid a tornado or blizzard can't fuck over. We need everybody's mind on the job not just dudes. A hundred percent of the population adding to and implementing global knowledge is a good thing for everyone; that's why it will happen. In the process patriarchy is lashing out violently in its death throws. What we need is for women and men both to denounce violence, inequality and an inherited sense of superiority.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

That would require a huge cultural change for the entire world. I don't see it happening in our lifetimes. I would say that the internet has been good in terms of spreading a more global equality rights movement and a more openness to anti-violence, but at the same time most of the social networking sites out there are full of flaming assholes. I swear negativity and asshole commentary has spread throughout the entire internet. So many hatemongers and trolls. Every site has comments and replies or facebook pages for every thing they do and not a single moderator or admin to stop the aggressive assholes from ruining a story. Even most youtube videos I look at have asshole comments. Anyway, seeing as assholeism keeps spreading, then I could see how some people could come to a conclusion of regulating guns and ammunition. Mostly because its easier to make a law to try and restrict weapons than to try and actually improve society to the point where those weapons won't be needed for human on human violence.

 

On a side note, I have a theory about the glorification of guns in American society. The US does not draft into the military. The main reason they don't do any drafting is because we have plenty of citizens that are willing to fight and die for our country and join the army, navy, marines, air force and coast guard and for that I am grateful. The problem we really have in the US is our education system. Our education system sucks. Its almost as if our education system is setup to purposefully fail for a large percentage of people. And don't get me wrong when I say this because I'm sure our armed forces have quite a few intelligent people, but there are a lot of people that join the army, etc, because of education, money and career problems. When I was going to high school, the army recruiter guy was there.. almost all the time. I could get in contact with an army recruiter easier than talking to a councilor. We could call this a government conspiracy, but it might be. As long as the higher ups keep a certain percentage of citizens in a lower class and lower educated state of mind, then they will have plenty of recruits for the army. There have been countless war movies, video games depicting war heroes, etc. Some could say that is also part of it. The game America's Army was made specifically to encourage our youth into joining the army. With our poor education and crappy career prospects, army recruiters in the high schools will tell you how you can get a larger private salary by getting your friends to enlist with you and how the army will pay for your college degree.

 

With all of that in place, most US citizens have the right to bear arms trained into them from an early age. Even if you have never shown any interest in joining the army, many of us have been conditioned towards firearms in some way. I think its pretty ridiculous for our society to glorify guns and then want to restrict their ownership. I myself don't feel the need to own a gun. Even though I don't feel the need to own one for defense, I would like to own one anyway. I've been target shooting and its fun. I can understand why people would want a ban on assault rifles, but at the same time there are a crap ton of ex-army people that would love to own versions of the assault rifles they grew to love while serving our country. Putting all this gun violence off as a means to regulate and restrict firearms seems mostly political to me. There are so many guns out there now that restricting them at this point will not stop anyone that wants to get a gun and killing people from doing so. The only thing it will do is restrict the mass population just to try and stop the few psychos that are out there that do go on a killing spree. But those people are psychos regardless if they have guns or not. If not guns, they'll make a homebrew of mustard gas and throw a bunch of cannisters into a high school sporting event and lock the gymnasium doors. What would government do then, restrict bleach purchases? No.. the problem are the psychos. And honestly, if we had a better education system, maybe these people wouldn't turn into psychos, or if they were then maybe they could be identified at an early age for specialty classes to help them with any issues.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

I watched this when it aired, my reaction wasn't as kind as the panels

http://youtu.be/CElOFx16Xlw

[Myk JL 1,731]

I'm shocked Joe Scarborough actually had something worth saying....

 

Anyway I heard about the commercial on The Daily Show.

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-16-2013/there-goes-the-boom

[Pchan 5,162]

Piers Morgan's a jackass. Shapiro pins him down well ...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJdhAm_oUUs

[Sledgstone 8,672]

I'm shocked Joe Scarborough actually had something worth saying....

 

Anyway I heard about the commercial on The Daily Show.

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-16-2013/there-goes-the-boom

 

That video was very interesting. I did not know about the director issues with the ATF.