Final Fantasy VII

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

The 18 year wait is over. Final Fantasy VII is being remade, and will be on PS4 first!

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[Myk JL 1,731]

I'm surprised its not solely being made for PS4. Unless that implies it'll also coming to PC. And won't be on Xbox One or Wii U.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

Square Enix is finally giving us what it's fans have wanted for so long.. I'm so happy.

 

They sold FFXIII and it's sequels on all consoles, once Square finally started selling their old Final Fantasy games on steam they quickly started releasing more on steam, including FFXIII. I'm guessing they make a good profit off their PC sales thru them, compared to running crappy sales on their own website and running their own drm. I will by this for PS4 on launch.

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

Meh, I wasn't really a fan of this game when I played it so I'll probably skip the remake. Plus I still need to go through and actually beat it (I own it on PC and PS but have never actually beat it).

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

http://www.vg247.com/2015/06/18/ff7-remake-we-dont-need-two-of-the-same-thing-says-nomura/

 

Just a few notes on this remake. Seems they're not going for a copy/paste approach with new graphics on this remake. Seems a lot of people are worried now and seems like if this goes wrong SE is going to be in a world of hurt.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

It could be great like MGS: The Twin Snakes, or Gamecube remake of Resident Evil..... or it could be like remastering COD4, by using the MW3 engine.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

This news makes me even more pleased. I had over 999 hours in the original game before the timer stopped keeping track. I would much rather experience the game in a new way than replay the exact same game again. And the points the guy makes ate true. It would seem so surreal to see fully realistic characters standing in a line while everyone takes turns attacking each other.

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

See since I wasn't a big fan of the game originally I might like this remake if it's done well, however, I don't want them to touch the combat system. I love turn-based combat and if they kept it the same way that would make me happy. My fear is they'll take this game and go into the same direction as almost every other RPG now-a-days and make it semi-turn based and try for the real-time type we've seen in other games. They need to do it right and since fans have been waiting damn near 20 years for a remake if they do this wrong SE will piss off the majority of it's fan base.

 

If they did this with IX (yes my favorite one since it brought me into FF and I doubt it will ever see a remake as many people didn't like it) I would be severely pissed if they changed the whole mechanics of the game just to make it seem different from the original. I would want the original combat system left in place (yes that means realistic characters standing still in a line between turns).

[Sledgstone 8,672]

I don't think we'll get that style of rpg combat anymore on AAA games. SE has moved away from it in all the FFXIII games. Probably as a bridge to get traditional rpg gamers into a real time combat system to get them comfortable and prepared for a MMORPG environment.

I bet we'll see all the turn based rpgs going straight to mobile phones and hand held systems from now on.

My fear for this game is if they remove the airship freedom. I loved flying all over the planet and landing anywhere I wanted. If they take that away and give us a generic menu of places to choose from like in FFX I will be extremely pissed.

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

Thats why I hate RPGs these days, very few can make the real-time combat system work (FFXIII's was clunky as hell, I have yet to play my copy but watching my old roommate play it I was getting irritated just watching him play). There is only a handful of games that due real-time well in the RPG genre and those were the original .hack games (Infection, Mutation, Outbreak, and Quarantine) and the Star Ocean games (2 was more turn-based with some aspects of real time, 3 pushed it more toward real-time, and 4 was pretty much all real-time). Just so I don't get called out on it Dragon Age and games like it are Action RPGs and don't use the traditional set-up so as fun as they are they aren't a true RPG for me. Turn-based combat shouldn't die, even in the new generation of games. They're slowly killing off one of the best aspects of RPGs and it's disheartening to think that this is what they're doing just because they think it's what gamers want (the industry's bread and butter is our generation, we spend the most money on games (whether for ourselves or our kids) and we grew up with the traditional game format. Pissing us off is akin to committing suicide for them). Pushing MMO style combat and control on people who don't want it or already get it in the MMO's they play is retarded. We've already seen a huge decline in MMO Pay-to-Play games and most Free-to-Play MMO's right now are on their death beds or slowly dieing (GW2 and STO are some of the rare exceptions to this). TOR took a massive hit in players when it went from P2P to F2P and only withing the last 2 years has the player base been slowly recovering (I know, I was there when it happened. It was like going from massively populated servers to almost ghost towns wherever you went).

 

Sadly I don't think we'll ever see a massive, explorable world in an RPG again or at least not as the free-roam variety like in FF7. That's one of the major worries fans are having for this remake and is likely going to make or break whether or not this is successful. A lot of people are pissed they're going to change the battle system this might just tip people over the edge (I get they have an HD remake coming out for PS4 of the original and they don't want carbon copy game but you can't go in and change things about a game that made people love the game). SE has made a lot of bad decisions in the last few years for the FF franchise (what with FFXIII, the original FFXIV, and the 7 or so year wait for what was supposed to be FFVersusXIII that's now FFXV (which some people are not happy with based on reactions from the demos) and their only redeeming act was to re-release FFXIV with a new development team that completely nailed it and made a shitty game spectacular with it's own expansion coming out next week (and with a player base of 4 million+ after almost 2 years on the market (will be 2 years old in August)). They need to get their heads out of their asses.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

I agree with you on that. The other problem I have with SE is that I enjoyed the old school final fantasy games and when I saw they were releasing new versions of some classics in steam I was very excited for some good turn based combat.. and then I saw the games and they were all remastered with character models for children. I pretty much hate children and these re-releases look like crap to me.

I think SE did a good job with real time combat in FF12. Unlike ff13, there was no cutaway to a combat screen. All the encounters happened with in the same exploreable area and it got rid of random encounters because all enemies were visible from some distance.

Honestly tho, our generation of gamers are going to be shit all over in the near future. The new generation of gamers are all trained to be adhd by their parents who give them their tablet or smart phone and let them play endless f2p games that are all time gated at 5 mins or less of enjoyment. As they keep running out of time they move on to the next game. I've seen this first hand with plenty of relatives and friend's kids. They no longer have the attention span to actually enjoy a RPG. They'd all rather dump $20 into a f2p tablet game with crap graphics for 30 mins of enjoyment than pay that same money for a game with a solid plot that could entertain them for weeks. F2p games are the new Crack for children, rivaling sugar, snacks and soda. With games like clash of clans, game of war, and numerous others making $1-5 million per day, all game companies will eventually cater to that market now.

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

It's so sad that this is the new norm. I play Clash of Clans, hell I blow money in the game because it's amusing and I have fun with it (I also throw money at Gun Girls which is fun) but it's sad that AAA titles are starting to fall victim to this (something we've already seen with CoD).

 

FFXII, which I still haven't beaten, had a good combat system. I wasn't overly hip on it when I first started playing it but I grew to like it because I was addicted to WoW at the time and it just clicked (would of been so much better with keyboard support though). If the remake of 7 has a similar combat system I can see people actually enjoying the game but if it goes down the path of 13 I don't see it ending well (hell I'd probably by the remake if that ends up being the only real core change).

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

 

Looks like realtime combat... I'll be playing this then.

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

Bah, considering I never did like the original FF7 I guess I'll be passing on this. Sigh, the good old days of Turn-Based combat are slowly becoming a memory.

 

My only other concern is if they're going down this route for combat (which is a major core gameplay change) how is the materia system going to be handled? That freaking system got pretty complex when you got down to the nitty gritty of things and I'm afraid it's not going to transfer over well with this new combat system. I also really don't remember all of what happened in that trailer happening in the game. Might be because it's been 6 or so years since I last played the original but that really didn't look right from my perspective.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

This looks amazing to me. I'll play the hell out of it. The trailer shows highlights from the first 10-20 minutes of the game. I've seen it plenty of times through my numerous play throughs in the past and I'm quite impressed with the way its been changed. That trailer doesn't show anything about materia or all the characters. If its truely real time combat then the other party members must be controlled via AI like in most of the new FF games. As long as they give us the option to swap to other characters to time combos or choose when to use their limit breakers, I'll be pleased.

 

I want to see what the summons look like. Knights of the Round better be in this game too.

 

 

Limit Breaks:

 

 

Omnislash was the shit. And Ultima Weapon was the best sword ever.

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

 

Knights will probably have a similar look to the changed forms of the 12 Ishgardian Knights in the video (beginning, the rest is just the fight from FFXIV). That's the newest incarnation of Knights of the Round (and it's a raid fight as well). You should go watch the primal video's for what they look like in FFXIV (primals are the summons from the previous games as boss fights in FFXIV). They may look similar or slightly different from that (every game does change what they look like).

 

Meh, I'm not into this real time shit anymore. They've ruined plenty of great franchises with it in the past and I really hate to see it with a classic like this (even if it's not a classic I like). I probably won't get it but if the materia system isn't changed and the AI control on teammates mirrors the Gambit System from FFXII I might change my mind. Honestly they take all the strategy out of the game doing this but if its what will sell the game I guess it's the choice they make. The only other thing is with this not being turn-based anymore there might not be a limit break system anymore (or it'll only be for the character you're controlling). Just some other thoughts that just popped into my head after reading your post and watching the vids.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Strider Hiryu

[Sledgstone 8,672]

Those guys looked pretty damn cool. I skimmed thru the fight. That guy stood there and face tanked the hell out of that guy. I'm so used to dodging and evading in GW2 I kept expecting the guy to start doing some acrobatics to avoid some of those attacks.

 

The gambit system from FFXII worked great. I wasn't a fan of it at first but it really grew on me. Being able to make a pre-defined AI strategy for NPC allies was great. It was like being able to program them completely and at any point you could pause the action, take control of them and issue commands. I was disappointed that complicated gambit programming wasn't an option in the FFXIII games. You had to deal with whatever the AI would do based on having them set as medic or assaulter or whatever those basic options were. But we were able to control any of the characters which was nice, except I don't think you could swap to them on the fly in a match.

 

If FF7 is based off FFXIII I'd be ok with that as long as we could swap to characters in mid fight to control them. If not then the challenge end game bosses like the omega weapon would probably be impossible.

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

Heh, tanking in FFXIV is about manning up and taking the hits. There are very few attacks that you actually have to dodge (the one hit kill ones) and all three tank jobs have a 15 second duration "Hit me all you want I won't take any damage" ability to nullify those oh shit moments where you can't dodge a huge hitting attack. If tanks actually had to dodge every attack or most attacks the game would break (tanks if FFXIV are kinda lazy). As a Ninja I've tanked my fair share of fights and believe me you have to dodge when you're class isn't build for tanking (Ninja is very squishy, most bosses can 2 shot me (even though I have 14k health)).

 

Even though I haven't played FFXIII yet (its on the back burner, I just need to get up the urge to turn on my 360 and play through it) I was extremely disappointed to see they left a Gambit type system out while my roommate played it. He was also extremely disappointed since, as you said, you had to rely on the AI making the right choices based on what they were set as. The other thing I wonder is if it'll be a three party set-up like the original or if you'll be stuck using only two characters like FFXIII. That would make fights even harder if you were one person short (fuck I'd hate to fight Ultima Weapon with only two people, he was a bitch with three and you had to fight him 4 times if you wanted Cloud's ultimate weapon). Fuck people would probably break their systems if they had to fight Ruby and Emerald with two people (Knights would probably only make the fight slightly easier).

[Sledgstone 8,672]

I bet it'll still be a 3 party system. That first fight in the trailer was only Cloud and Barret just like in the original. The third party member to join is Tifa shortly after that boss fight if I remember right. One of the things I want them to keep more than anything is the airship freedom. FF13 and FFX games were so linear that you didn't even have full airship controls. You could only go from point A to point B. FF7 let you fly the airship all over the planet and go anywhere at any time once you got the ship. One of the coolest things in the game was getting a chocobo ranch, breeding chocobos and then having a pen for them on your airship. You could land in a field and disembark on your chocobo and travel thru forests and over mountains to get to areas your airship can't land at.

You need the ultimate golden chocobo to get the Knights of the round summon. I bred so many chocobos. I would always release the down syndrome ones from all my in breeding out in the wild just like this comic.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=72

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

http://www.vg247.com/2015/12/07/final-fantasy-7-remake-is-episodic-otherwise-wed-have-to-cut-some-parts-says-director/

 

So they're going to make it episodic and split it up into multiple games. I really don't know about that (especially considering the amount of money needing to be invested to play a whole game). It's sent a lot of fans into an uproar already.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

Wtf. They better not screw this up now. And if it's getting broken up in chunks then there goes the open world non linear aspect of the game once you get the airship. if they plan on making it into 3 chunks like starcraft they better make this game amazing. But if they split it up into 5-8 hour episodes like a tell tale game they'd need probably 10 episodes. And that would be milking the hell out of everyone.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

A terrible decision TBH. But they know people will pay for it regardless. Until people finally start putting their foot down and stop buying shit, it will continue.

 

This is my issue with remakes/remasters.

 

I'd love a remaster of COD4/MW2, but I'm afraid they'd totally screw it up by adding an "updated engine" putting it more in line with the garbage toned down gunplay today's COD's have, and messing up the gameplay mechanics. Id like to see a final kill cam and theater mode added, but I'd want everything kept the same post models/jav glitch patch.

 

On the other side. I'm super excited about the reimagining of Ratchet & Clank coming out in April. I'd like to see stuff like this done with Twisted Metal 2 and Dark Cloud. I'm sure this is what FF7 fans had in mind for this game... and now they have to deal with episodic BS.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

I was thinking about this again this morning and I completely forgot FF7 originally came out for PS1 on 3 disks. Even tho the game was technically broken up into 3 disks it didn't take away from the overall freedom at all. Seeing as the game will be a complete remaster and many scenes and locations are so unique, this game will probably be a massive chunk of hard drive space. Maybe they have to break the game up into chunks to save space like how the original game was on 3 disks. With all this work, instead of milking everyone for 10 episodes, it'd be great if they sold the game as a solid 1 price and then reuse those game assets to make sequels. With FFXIII-2, and 3 and FFX2 and 3, I wouldn't be surprised if they make 2 follow up games for FF7. And I'd play the hell out of those.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

You also have the remember how limited the space was on those primitive laser discs... they weren't even DVDs.

 

XD

 

I don't think that is a reasonable excuse, the game discs now just serve as an install/verification tool. I forgot all about disc swaps... I remember playing RE4 on Gamecube, and being so hyped swapping to disc 2 after hours of gameplay... only to be served with what was basically the last boss fight... I was like WTF?

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

Disc space is no longer an issue considering we're now playing games on Blu-Ray Disc and if you honestly think about it if they kept the game the same way it is now and only did a graphical update the game would probably only take up roughly half a BD (character models and assets do not take up a lot of space especially considering almost all developers use the lowest possible poly-counts for their models, all you're seeing is great texture work (yes it pays to have a degree in Game Design sometimes)).

 

The issue Square is having is they don't want to invest the manpower or time into recreating all the art assets, redoing the soundtrack, and sprucing up the old code to make it work on new hardware. Plus, and I do agree with this, it's not worth it if only a handful of 25-40 year olds are going to buy the game for nostalgia. They're redoing the whole game because they want to bring in the current generation of gamers, the ones with the short attention spans who want action based combat and no thinking. The ones who button mash and don't learn how to take an enemy down the right way, using game and boss mechanics to their advantage. Basically they're kicking our generation in the nuts to cater to the younger generation. While I understand where they're coming from I don't agree with it.

 

This is why they feel they need to split the game into parts to make it easier on them to rewrite code for Unreal 4 (which yes they are using that engine for this) and to slowly redo art assets to make them all pretty and shiny for the ADHD generation. You already know they'll cut the Ruby and Emerald fights since they are optional, Ultima will probably be cut down to one fight and you'll just have to craft or find Cloud's ultimate weapon, only a handful of Limit Breaks will be brought over into the game (probably the big ones), summons will be minimal (probably only one Bahamut summon and most likely not the awesome one), Chocobo breeding/racing will probably be taken completely out (bye bye Knights of the Round unless they just give it to you), they materia system will probably be gutted to make it simpler and easier to understand for the current generation of gamers, and say goodbye to your airship freedom from the original. They'll also, even though they pretty much said they wouldn't since they're cutting the game into pieces, summarize a lot of the non-important story events you go through.

 

While yes I'm pessimistic and I've already said I didn't like the original I'm just appalled that this is what developers feel they need to do to old games when they remake them. I can guarantee you if they ever decided to remake FFIX or if Sony decided to remake Legend of Dragoon and they did shit like this to it I would be up in arms about it. Yes, I understand I'm one old gamer who is trying to relive his glory days of RPG gaming but you can't go and gut a classic game like this and give us a shell of what it once was. Hell I could be wrong and you'll get an awesome game remake that tops the charts and brings back massive interest in the genre but, as much as I love them, Mass Effect/Elder Scrolls/Dragon Age/etc. has ruined the RPG genre as a whole and has turned them into nothing more the Action games with RPG elements.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Strider Hiryu