and the nominees are...

[Ladywriter 7,783]

Congrats to Obama and McCain. One of these guys is our next president.

Before this began I was a democrat from NY.

During the primaries I supported my senator for the nomination.

I can remember "The Clinton Years" and compared to how things are now that was a fuckin golden age I am absolutely not saying we should go back to that. I am saying we need out of where we are now.

I watched all the speeches and hoo ha last night because I am concerned that my party is too divided right now. Personally I think the media needs to fuckin back off for a minute here. They're villanizing her and needling him. That is not what this party needs right now. Look at the #'s both candidates pulled. They both got people out to vote. They got the party excited about taking back the white house. It was a close race reguardless of the way the press likes to paint it. Voters matter, not just delegates. We matter and 18 million voters gave their vote to Hillary Clinton. That is significant. As a party we have to now swing all of those Hillary votes to Obama.

Be 4real here for a minute. There were a lot of people that wanted Hillary Clinton in the position because of what she brought to the presidency; her plans and experience. Housing, health care, green jobs; a real shot in the arm to the struggling middle class.

I loved what she said What do I want? I want ... She has stayed with this because those voting for her wouldn't let her quit. We used her to be a voice nearly 18 million strong. For her to just say eh its over would be horrible. It would be a betrayal to the people and the ideas she is pushing for cuz we're pushing her.

This has been a long crazy ordeal. There's nothing wrong with thankin her peeps and saying I'm takin a freaking breather. Fuck people let the woman take a frigin nap. Today is her 80 year old momz b-day

People nagging after Obama about her is not helping.

Relax. They'll hook up and have a meeting no press. When they step out of said meeting they'll be all smiles she'll start shifting her supporters his way he'll praise her and the people who believed in her. Give the split party time to merge. If by July it looks Obama can't take McCain (the politicians are already playing with their maps) they put Hillary on the ticket as VP and spin it as the ultimate dream team that unites all democrats.

[slippers 3,168]

I surely will remember a fucking racist like McCain's, "I hate gooks. I hate all gooks" comment in 2001.

At least Obama has an Asian brother in law, and he understands the multiculturalism, since he is mixed too, and won't act stupid as joking about killing innocent people like "bomb Iran."

[Kite 3,263]

i cant vote, but personaly i would have voted for Obama over Hillary

either way the real election is long from over

there was talks that obama could have Hilliary as vice president (that would unite the party)

but i think a boat needs one captain and one first mate, not two captains

i just wish the media would stop refering as Hillary as a women and Obama as a black man, there both people. and should win on their ideals not have a race to the be in the history books

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

Well it's another damned if you do damned if you don't situation (much like last time). McCain was a given as he really had no one to run against Republican side. Not to surprising Obama won it Democratic side.

Either way I'm not liking our future prospects.

[Myk JL 1,731]

Well it's another damned if you do damned if you don't situation (much like last time). McCain was a given as he really had no one to run against Republican side. Not to surprising Obama won it Democratic side.

Either way I'm not liking our future prospects.

I agree. Where ever this goes it will either lean towards the Democrats Communist Ideals or the Republicans Nazi Ideals.

It's not like this wasn't predictable. Most people are sheep for the mass media.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

I agree. Where ever this goes it will either lean towards the Democrats Communist Ideals or the Republicans Nazi Ideals.

It's not like this wasn't predictable. Most people are sheep for the mass media.

A very strong case could be made that Ron Paul's opinions could be more closely compared to Hitler's than any other candidate. Its actually pretty frightening if you look at the history of Germany 1933-1939, just before World War II started. You can't just go throwing the word Communist and Nazi around as an insult. Misinformed statements like that are the same tactics used by the mass media to enslave the mind.

Anyways, you have a 72 year old man that could kick the bucket in office, and you have a man that is at high risk for assassination. Its not looking good. Wow, McCain will be even older than Regan was if he takes office. The pool of candidates is definitely stale, and probably will remain that way for another two decades unless a massive ousting of incumbents takes place over that time. Its just a part of the process, just look down the list of the Presidents, 14 of them are pretty much lame ducks. Even most historians couldn't tell you much about them off the top of their heads. We've been rolling out the big names since 1929, sadly it started going dry last election. John Kerry? please... There wasn't much competition for W. Thats why he won. Now both sides are kind of ... eh. Its going to be up to the other branches of our government to pull most of the weight for a while... luckily thats why we have 3.

[Myk JL 1,731]

A very strong case could be made that Ron Paul's opinions could be more closely compared to Hitler's than any other candidate. Its actually pretty frightening if you look at the history of Germany 1933-1939, just before World War II started. You can't just go throwing the word Communist and Nazi around as an insult. Misinformed statements like that are the same tactics used by the mass media to enslave the mind.

That comparison I'd say is really misinformed. Ron Paul isn't the kind of guy who would have started a war. The man is a strict constitutionalist. Such a nasty statement could draw that our forefathers would have agreed with Hitler.

The 2 democrats that had been duking it out have had the pretty much the same social ideals. While the "final" Republican is all for preemptive strikes and wants to bomb Iran.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

I'll go out on a limb here and say that most Americans don't want any more war, we want out of the shit mess we're in. McCain will stay in Iraq (and wherever else Bush has our troops fighting before he checks out). A republican in the white house = continued war. People are tired of the bankers getting perversely rich off of all of this fighting. Obama on the other hand wants out, but does he have feasible an exit strategy?. He isn't exactly brimming with for. policy experience. The shittin mess Bush is leaving in the middle east falls on the next guy's shoulders to clean up. It is and will be a huge issue to the voters.

I like RP's idea declare victory and leave

[Myk JL 1,731]

I'll go out on a limb here and say that most Americans don't want any more war, we want out of the shit mess we're in. McCain will stay in Iraq (and wherever else Bush has our troops fighting before he checks out). A republican in the white house = continued war. People are tired of the bankers getting perversely rich off of all of this fighting. Obama on the other hand wants out, but does he have feasible an exit strategy?. He isn't exactly brimming with for. policy experience. The shittin mess Bush is leaving in the middle east falls on the next guy's shoulders to clean up. It is and will be a huge issue to the voters.

I like RP's idea declare victory and leave

Didn't Obama also get stuck on explaining himself when he said he'd leave Iraq & fight terrorist where ever they are? Only to then be reminded terrorist have been in Iraq since we got there? That just might remove the idea of our troops leaving Iraq if he wants the other too.

I like Ron Paul's speech that you can't have a war on a tactic.

[Khellendross 1,260]

Terrorists in Iraq from the start?

Meh, I was gonna post something here. but i'll leave it. TBH too much stupidity in Washington atm to do anything useful. Change would indeed be great.

Edited June 5, 2008 by Khellendross

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

That comparison I'd say is really misinformed. Ron Paul isn't the kind of guy who would have started a war. The man is a strict constitutionalist. Such a nasty statement could draw that our forefathers would have agreed with Hitler.

The 2 democrats that had been duking it out have had the pretty much the same social ideals. While the "final" Republican is all for preemptive strikes and wants to bomb Iran.

Seeing as I majored in History on the focal point of Nazi Germany, I am more than informed than you could imagine. While your knowledge seems to be limited to the fact that Hitler started World War II, I stated, what he did before World War II in governing Germany bares striking resemblances to what Ron Paul invisions. Just as no one knew what Hitler would do back then, the same applies for Ron Paul now. You can think he is a constitutionalist all you'd like, and he may be... but only Ron Paul knows what he really is.

I'm not saying Ron Paul would invade mexico and canada, and let his cabinet formulate a plan to send millions to their death in execution facilities. I'm bringing to light a legitimate statement that you could make a more frighteningly solid case against Ron Paul than you could the entire Republican party, which is known to support a lot of things in this country that Hitler despised in his own. You can try to refute historical events all you wish, but you will be wrong.

[Myk JL 1,731]

Seeing as I majored in History on the focal point of Nazi Germany, I am more than informed than you could imagine. While your knowledge seems to be limited to the fact that Hitler started World War II, I stated, what he did before World War II in governing Germany bares striking resemblances to what Ron Paul invisions. Just as no one knew what Hitler would do back then, the same applies for Ron Paul now. You can think he is a constitutionalist all you'd like, and he may be... but only Ron Paul knows what he really is.

I'm not saying Ron Paul would invade mexico and canada, and let his cabinet formulate a plan to send millions to their death in execution facilities. I'm bringing to light a legitimate statement that you could make a more frighteningly solid case against Ron Paul than you could the entire Republican party, which is known to support a lot of things in this country that Hitler despised in his own. You can try to refute historical events all you wish, but you will be wrong.

You're not showing any real proof. Just saying you have proof.

And saying Ron Paul would start a war is ridiculous. Over & over again he has stated that preemptive strikes/wars we have been fighting are unconstitutional. And Ron Paul has a way more solid history than the other candidates who have flip flopped.

[Zepling 100]

Well, my candidate was John Edwards but he had to drop out before he got to my state. Socialism? I don't think that's a bad word. Just look at Europe. Democratic-Socialism has it's problems but every government has problems, sooo...

I don't think McCain is very in touch with the American people or the world. Because of his speaking mistakes, I think he will need to have someone (literally or figuratively) whispering in his ear when he speaks publicly, or during everyday briefings, operations, and meetings in the white house.

As for Hillary; I get it, she's experienced. However, she shouldn't throw stones at Obama for having no foreign policy experience. She doesn't have much either.

And Obama was actually near the bottom of my list for worthy candidates. (Edwards, Richardson, Kusinich, Obama, Gravel, Clinton). I don't agree with all of his opinions but he's what the Democrats have so we've got to work with him. If Hillary had come out first, I would vote for her doing the GE just as I will Obama.

Also, I don't believe Hillary should just be given the VP slot because she ran a good campaign. I don't see her working well with others. I think she would be a great cabinet member though.

I hope those 27% of Hillary supporters that plan to vote for McCain just abstain from voting. If they do that, then they have absolutely no right to call Nader a "spoiler" anymore. Just leave the poor man alone.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

You're not showing any real proof. Just saying you have proof.

And saying Ron Paul would start a war is ridiculous. Over & over again he has stated that preemptive strikes/wars we have been fighting are unconstitutional. And Ron Paul has a way more solid history than the other candidates who have flip flopped.

Oh really? When did I say Ron Paul would start a war? Quote me on it.

Basically the general education in school is that the Nazi's started World War II and killed 6 million jews, putting Hitler as the mastermind behind all of it. You have displayed that you know that, but its entirely watered down and in the overall picture... incorrect. Its a lot more complex than that. Hitler didn't bust down the door of the Reichstag and start WWII on day one... it was almost 6 years after he was in office, They barely even mention anything about those years, its not common knowledge.

*shrugs* I could spend an hour or two putting together a side by side comparison, but why should I waste my time on you? You'll just say a bunch of logic defying, overly opinionated, garbage with no solid foundation (aka real facts) because you can't really dispute what I have said. The proof is in the fact that it really happened. I told you it was there, you can look it up on your own time. You know what Paul stands for, I gave you the correct years in German history. I have nothing to hide, I spent four years learning everything about it myself. It doesn't matter to me if you investigate for yourself or not. Just because you don't know about it doesn't make it wrong. Thats a pathetic way to go about things.

[Myk JL 1,731]

Oh really? When did I say Ron Paul would start a war? Quote me on it.

Basically the general education in school is that the Nazi's started World War II and killed 6 million Jews, putting Hitler as the mastermind behind all of it. You have displayed that you know that, but its entirely watered down and in the overall picture... incorrect. Its a lot more complex than that. Hitler didn't bust down the door of the Reichstag and start WWII on day one... it was almost 6 years after he was in office, They barely even mention anything about those years, its not common knowledge.

*shrugs* I could spend an hour or two putting together a side by side comparison, but why should I waste my time on you? You'll just say a bunch of logic defying, overly opinionated, garbage with no solid foundation (aka real facts) because you can't really dispute what I have said. The proof is in the fact that it really happened. I told you it was there, you can look it up on your own time. You know what Paul stands for, I gave you the correct years in German history. I have nothing to hide, I spent four years learning everything about it myself. It doesn't matter to me if you investigate for yourself or not. Just because you don't know about it doesn't make it wrong. Thats a pathetic way to go about things.

OK.

Just as no one knew what Hitler would do back then, the same applies for Ron Paul now. You can think he is a constitutionalist all you'd like, and he may be... but only Ron Paul knows what he really is.

You single Ron Paul out as a the most likely to start a war based on similarities you say he has with Hitler?

How is this similar to Ron Paul or is this just a shot in the dark?

And as for your last paragraph saying you have proof & not showing you have proof? Because I might prove you wrong? You can not make such a case that Ron Paul is similar to Hitler if you have no real evidence to show. And then blame me because I don't find your evidence.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

OK. You single Ron Paul out as a the most likely to start a war based on similarities you say he has with Hitler?

How is this similar to Ron Paul or is this just a shot in the dark?

And as for your last paragraph saying you have proof & not showing you have proof? Because I might prove you wrong? You can not make such a case that Ron Paul is similar to Hitler if you have no real evidence to show. And then blame me because I don't find your evidence.

That isn't even what I said. Do you really have a hard time comprehending words and sentences? It seems like you don't even read it all and just jump to random conclusions that make absolutely no sense. Or are you trying to warp what I have been saying because you obviously see that there is nothing you can put up against my statements. This is exactly why I just said what I did about wasting time trying to explain anything to you.

Just out of the kindness of my heart here is one last attempt: You say the Republican party has Nazi Ideals... they don't, you can't prove it because its not there. Socially the NSDAP was the exact opposite of the Republican party on many fronts. My point was simply to state how bad of a comparison it was, and then turn around to say that Ron Paul's (The person you support) policies on an international scale and on a national scale are similar to what Adolf Hitler did in Germany BEFORE World War II. I don't know how many times I have said before WWII, but you seem to ignore that part every time, and then try to say that I said Ron Paul will start WWIII. Then again you didn't quote me, because you couldn't. Hitler did a lot more than just start a war. He took a decaying Germany and turned it to the biggest industrial and economic power in Europe among other things that you obviously aren't aware of.

The conclusion you should have came to was that Ron Paul was more similar to the Nazi's in a certain aspect than the entire republican party. I never said in a bad way, you just assumed that based of the negative connotations of National Socialism. Just because Bush started a war doesn't make him a Nazi, that's purely an idiotic statement. More factions have started wars than just them.

Even if I was wrong... and I promise I am not, how could you expect to prove me wrong when you have so little information about the Nazis.

[Myk JL 1,731]

Because you have implied that Ron Paul might follow in Hitler's exact foot steps. You say before WWII then you go on as if some how Ron Paul may go & throw his ideals out the window & start a war.

You directed this conclusion soley to Ron Paul & none of the other candidates. Not to McCain who wants to bomb Iran & has made statements about a 100 year war. Not to Obama who might continue the War On Terror in Iraq. And not to Hillary who voted for the war only to change her mind later.

Tell anyone someone is like Hitler & the 1st thing that comes to mind is WWII; not the years before.

[Strider Hiryu 2,704]

Tell anyone someone is like Hitler & the 1st thing that comes to mind is WWII; not the years before.

Actually no Myk. Any intelligent person would not think of WWII when Hitler is mentioned. Hell I knew exactly what DX meant when he first stated it (and not because I'm a history fanatic). Don't go throwing everyone into a stereotype much like your trying to say DX is doing with Ron Paul.

Yes I know this has no relevance to what this topic is about but really this argument is getting extremely childish. Just agree to disagree and move on please. I think this is the reason we don't see many political topics here, they always degrade into something similar (and no I'm not singling anyone out here. Yes I'm siding with DX only because I actually understand what he's trying to say).

Sigh, I turn you back to your regularly scheduled topic. Please ignore anything I might have said that derail this topic, we all know I can be a little crazy.

[Myk JL 1,731]

I don't know if I'm going by a stereotype or not, but I have never encountered anyone who would say that Hitler was a great guy for six years. And if I were to tell anyone that Ron Paul is similar to Hitler I'd probably get smacked up side the head for slander. As most who know who Ron Paul is say how he is similar to our Founding Fathers. Ultimately really pissing off some who think I just called The Founding Fathers, Hitler Sympathisers.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

*tsk tsk* Grasping at straws now? You still don't get it. No McCain doesn't share similar polices with Hitler. Hey Kublai Khan continued Ghengis Khans wars, we can all compare McCain to him. X'D

You should just keep the word Nazi and Communist to yourself, and not tact them on to anything you don't fully understand, or just because you don't agree with a group of people. I don't really care about your political affiliations or the fact that you support Ron Paul. I don't think you are wrong for doing so. Just don't use bad terminology.

[Myk JL 1,731]

*tsk tsk* Grasping at straws now? You still don't get it. No McCain doesn't share similar polices with Hitler. Hey Kublai Khan continued Genghis Khans wars, we can all compare McCain to him. X'D

You should just keep the word Nazi and Communist to yourself, and not tact them on to anything you don't fully understand, or just because you don't agree with a group of people. I don't really care about your political affiliations or the fact that you support Ron Paul. I don't think you are wrong for doing so. Just don't use bad terminology.

Nah, you just don't grasp the talk of preemptive strikes & racism McCain has spewed.

And if you didn't care for my political affiliations or my support for Ron Paul then you shouldn't have brought them up. Rather you brought up your terminology because you hated my terminology.

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

Republican Nazi Ideals = No Such Thing.

Democrat Communists = uhhhh no.

I didn't hate you're terminology, you were just incorrect. There were plenty of racists before and after Hitler, but he never called for preemptive strikes, he marched into country to take them over, not to prevent them from attacking Germany first. When did a senile old man become the focal point anyways... thats ok, you can bask in ignorance all you wish. But if you are going to go slander others political beliefs by adding negative connotations at the ends of them, you shouldn't be all touchy when someone brings up yours. Oh, you didn't offend me by no means, I don't consider myself affiliated with either party. I just don't like falsities.

[Myk JL 1,731]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5d9_1196711448

So I'm looking up more on how "similar" Ron Paul & Hitler are. And So far I found one major difference. Hitler is a Statist. Now if you don't know what a statist is it's someone who is for big government. Ron Paul is the exact opposite being a Libertarian or small government when it comes to these issues.

Because Ron Paul has not & will not win the presidencey the similarity of him gaining power because of current problems greatly lessens this similarity you say he has had with Hitler.

Edited June 7, 2008 by Myk JL
Adding more.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

If Ron Paul or Hillary or whoever wants to try again in 4 years they will. Arguing about them folks not running for president is kinda like

[DeathscytheX 9,732]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5d9_1196711448

So I'm looking up more on how "similar" Ron Paul & Hitler are. And So far I found one major difference. Hitler is a Statist. Now if you don't know what a statist is it's someone who is for big government. Ron Paul is the exact opposite being a Libertarian or small government when it comes to these issues.

Because Ron Paul has not & will not win the presidencey the similarity of him gaining power because of current problems greatly lessens this similarity you say he has had with Hitler.

It took Hitler 3 or 4 elections to get his party into the Reichstag, his party got in with a very small percentage (and hardly any seats) and slowly gained support from there. Ron Paul is kind of old, so I will give you the fact that he may never become president, but who knows what would have happened if he was a bit younger.

Here is a freebie. Ron Paul wants the US to withdraw from the UN correct? Hitler withdrew Germany from its predecessor the League of Nations.

You can try to twist it any way you want. I never said Ron Paul is exactly like Hitler. I said he can be compared to Hitler better than any other candidate (only because you put the word Replublican and Nazi together). Yes they have different polices, but they have more similar ones than McCain, Hillary, and Obama. Thus he is more like Hitler than any other candidate even if he had just 1 more comparable policy than the rest. Hell, I'm not too sure Obama even knows what foreign policy is, it would be pretty hard to have comparisons when you don't have anything to compare.

On the other hand you have done nothing to prove that Republicans are Nazis, although its funny in itself you say that, and Paul is currently residing in that party. All your video has proven is that McCain isn't very sharp on his history. You say he is a racist and wants to start wars... Pharaohs of Egypt were and did that, and just about every other ancient civilization. They started wars and hated the Jews. You can bash him all you wish, I certainly won't stand up for him. He's not a Nazi though.