"You decide '08" aka pick the lesser of 2 evils you didn't want to begin with '08

[Ladywriter 7,783]

In the news today...

Iraq appears to share Obama's pullout hope

Al-Dabbagh said the government did not endorse a fixed date, but hoped American combat units could be out of Iraq sometime in 2010. That timeframe falls within the 16-month withdrawal plan proposed by Obama, who arrived in Iraq earlier in the day as part of a congressional fact-finding team.

McCain: Obama wrong on Iraq, Afghanistan

McCain has resisted any timetable for withdrawal, insisting that victory in Iraq is a necessary precursor to success in Afghanistan.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

Obama's voting record

*already found fishy bs as he voted Y to the FISA bill*

McCain

*just die old man*

tryin to use multiple sites... but basically they both SUCK

Neither give a good godamn about your freedom and liberty, human rights, environmental protection (DU shells is n/p for these assholes), the constitution....

go ahead n vote for one of these fucksticks if ya wanna be kickin yerself in the ass a year later for voting for him or clear yer conscious and don't vote for either.

Barr is recognized as the libertarian candidate in most states and some states give you the option to write in (Ron Paul!)

As a registered democrat, like 18 million other reg dems, I did not want Obaama to recieve the dem nomination...but he did because the delagates threw their support behind him. Someone close to me whom I won't name because of the statement I'm about to quote said to me "Men would rather vote for a ni**er then a woman." Granted the person grew up in a different generation where racial and religious tolerance wasn't what it was today... but how lovely to see that sexism trumps racisim reguardless of experience. Not. It really makes me wonder if the delegates thought the same way he did/does.

[Myk JL 1,731]

Obama's voting record

*already found fishy bs as he voted Y to the FISA bill*

McCain

*just die old man*

tryin to use multiple sites... but basically they both SUCK

Neither give a good godamn about your freedom and liberty, human rights, environmental protection (DU shells is n/p for these assholes), the constitution....

go ahead n vote for one of these fucksticks if ya wanna be kickin yerself in the ass a year later for voting for him or clear yer conscious and don't vote for either.

Barr is recognized as the libertarian candidate in most states and some states give you the option to write in (Ron Paul!)

As a registered democrat, like 18 million other reg dems, I did not want Obaama to recieve the dem nomination...but he did because the delagates threw their support behind him. Someone close to me whom I won't name because of the statement I'm about to quote said to me "Men would rather vote for a ni**er then a woman." Granted the person grew up in a different generation where racial and religious tolerance wasn't what it was today... but how lovely to see that sexism trumps racisim reguardless of experience. Not. It really makes me wonder if the delegates thought the same way he did/does.

Wait... It wasn't Don Imus was it?...

If only Obama shared Ron Paul's views he'd be worth voting for. The only thing Obama has going for him is he isn't senile like McCain.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

adc3MSS5Ydc

[Ladywriter 7,783]

John McCain's Disaster Economics

McCain Opposes Contraception -- Pass It On

Free Trade a Clear Wedge Issue in '08 Election

[Zepling 100]

If Obama shared 100% of Ron Paul's views, he would not have gotten (is that a word???) this far.

I don't trust Obama. But if he had the same views as Ron Paul, I wouldn't trust him even more. Had the primaries resulted in a Billary nomination, I would have considered skipping out to live in England. I also can't stand how McCain has become more and more conservative since 2000. This election season sucks hardcore. Both candidates can be bought and sold just like candidates in the past. . . I give a thumbs down to this election.

[Myk JL 1,731]

Worst Jib Jab joke I've seen...

Ron Paul can't be bought or sold like the rest of the 1st party candidates.

The whole NAFTA thing still scares the crap out of me.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

I like Obama on the unicorn X'D

NAFTA is a friggin nightmare. It shouldn't bee FREE trade It needs to be FAIR trade

[HKofsesshoumaru 673]

LMAO did anybody go and upload their pic and make their own video?

[Ladywriter 7,783]

no..........did u? I wanna seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee it! X'D

[Khellendross 1,260]

Ron Paul can't be bought or sold like the rest of the 1st party candidates.

He's human. Human nature is Greed. He can be bought, the question is the amount.

As for presidents. I'd rather have Obama than McCain. sorry. but McCain just screams Bush. and im rather tired of Bush's idiocy.

[Myk JL 1,731]

He's human. Human nature is Greed. He can be bought, the question is the amount.

As for presidents. I'd rather have Obama than McCain. sorry. but McCain just screams Bush. and I'm rather tired of Bush's idiocy.

Their isn't a price high enough to buy Ron Paul, because if there was he would have sold out by now.

Both candidates suck. McCain just sucks more.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

rite on

Obama voted yes on FISA. He can suck a rosey fart outta my ass.

[Khellendross 1,260]

Their isn't a price high enough to buy Ron Paul, because if there was he would have sold out by now.

i find that comment halarious.

Politicians always have, and always will be, money whores. It's not a job you do just because you "want to do whats right" it's about power and the aquisition of more.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

check out RP man. I guarantee yer opnion of at least him will change

[Khellendross 1,260]

I did, I didn't like any of the choices we had. RP was closer to the "Clean" edge than the others. But noone who works in Politics is squeeky. And they all have their dark sides.

[Myk JL 1,731]

Most Politicians always have, and always will be, money whores. It's not a job most do just because they "want to do whats right" it's about power and the acquisition of more.

Fixed.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

All humans have a dark side

:battle:

RP is pro life and I'm pro choice but fuck it man I'm fixed so... X'D

[Myk JL 1,731]

All humans have a dark side

:battle:

RP is pro life and I'm pro choice but fuck it man I'm fixed so... X'D

I also dislike that about him. No man should have an opinion on that matter.

[Zepling 100]

Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)

Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)

Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)

Don't ask, don't tell is a decent policy for gays in army. (Jun 2007)

Gender-equal pay violates idea of voluntary contract. (Dec 1987)

Rights belong only to individuals, not collective groups. (Dec 1987)

Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)

Present scientific facts that support creationism. (Sep 2007)

Tax-credited programs for Christian schooling. (Sep 2007)

Voted NO on $84 million in grants for Black and Hispanic colleges. (Mar 2006)

Voted NO on tax incentives for renewable energy. (Feb 2008)

Voted YES on scheduling permitting for new oil refinieries. (Jun 2006)

Voted NO on raising CAFE standards; incentives for alternative fuels. (Aug 2001)

Voted NO on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol. (Jun 2000)

Voted NO on keeping moratorium on drilling for oil offshore. (Jun 2006)

Voted NO on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC. (May 2007)

Scored 14% on Humane Society Scorecard on animal protection. (Jan 2007)

Voted NO on speeding up approval of forest thinning projects. (Nov 2003)

State role on medical care for children undermines freedom. (Dec 1987)

Don't pressure Israel to give up land for promise of peace. (Sep 2007)

UN membership leads to impractical military conflicts. (Feb 2003)

Voted YES on withholding $244M in UN Back Payments until US seat restored. (May 2001)

Sponsored bill invalidating International Criminal Court. (Mar 2003)

Voted NO on requiring lobbyist disclosure of bundled donations. (May 2007)

I'm not trying to blast the guy, that's not my intention. Those are some things that concern me about Ron Paul's stances/voting record and why I can't fully support the guy. There are many things that I've read that I agree do agree with...but there are also more things I don't like about him that I didn't get to...

[Myk JL 1,731]

Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Don't ask, don't tell is a decent policy for gays in army. (Jun 2007)

I don't know how rampant homophobia is in the the army so I wouldn't know if it was right or wrong.

Gender-equal pay violates idea of voluntary contract. (Dec 1987)

I see a small problem here, but it's the same as minimum wage problem. The answer to this problem is unionising.

Rights belong only to individuals, not collective groups. (Dec 1987)

So your rights belong to someone else? Would you really want the head of a group to dictate your rights?

Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Present scientific facts that support creationism. (Sep 2007)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Tax-credited programs for Christian schooling. (Sep 2007)

They're not public schools. Anything that helps reduce taxes for anyone is good.

Voted NO on $84 million in grants for Black and Hispanic colleges. (Mar 2006)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Voted NO on tax incentives for renewable energy. (Feb 2008)

It probably involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Voted YES on scheduling permitting for new oil refineries. (Jun 2006)

Government has no business outside of defending the country. Voting no would have been the wrong stance to take on letting businesses run themselves.

Voted NO on raising CAFE standards; incentives for alternative fuels. (Aug 2001)

It probably involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Voted NO on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol. (Jun 2000)

We have no business getting entangle with other countries affairs.

Voted NO on keeping moratorium on drilling for oil offshore. (Jun 2006)

Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Voted NO on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC. (May 2007)

We have no business getting entangle with other countries affairs.

Scored 14% on Humane Society Scorecard on animal protection. (Jan 2007)

Constitution doesn't protect animals; just people.

Voted NO on speeding up approval of forest thinning projects. (Nov 2003)

I'm confused... Should he have voted yes for "forest thinning projects"? Besides it involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

State role on medical care for children undermines freedom. (Dec 1987)

State is the key word here. Not a Federal issue. And this stamps on private businesses. In other words It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Don't pressure Israel to give up land for promise of peace. (Sep 2007)

We have no business getting entangle with other countries affairs.

UN membership leads to impractical military conflicts. (Feb 2003)

We have no business getting entangle with other countries affairs.

Voted YES on withholding $244M in UN Back Payments until US seat restored. (May 2001)

I bet if he could have he would have voted yes for leaving the UN. We have no business getting entangle with other countries affairs.

Sponsored bill invalidating International Criminal Court. (Mar 2003)

We have no business getting entangle with other countries affairs.

Voted NO on requiring lobbyist disclosure of bundled donations. (May 2007)

Although I hate lobbyist they have the same right to privacy I do. I would however refer a Yes on requiring politicians to disclose the money they get & how / why they got it.

[Khellendross 1,260]

Myk, just for the short stick, you're full of it.

Im done posting here. I for one am glad he's not on the ballot.

[Myk JL 1,731]

Myk, just for the short stick, you're full of it.

I'm done posting here. I for one am glad he's not on the ballot.

And you probably didn't know the opposite vote would have been unconstitutional.

And even if you're done here I find it contradictory for you to say Ron Paul was the cleanest then be glad he wasn't on the ballot.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

every voter should take

Relax everybody. Friendly debate. No personal attacks please.

[Zepling 100]

I wasn't posting that in order to engage in a point for point debate because I do not believe that Ron Paul is wrong. I have a copy of the Constitution, I know what it says. I disagree with Ron Paul. I am not a strict "Constitutionalist" because I believe that we live in a different world now that requires a different way of looking at things. Ron Paul does not represent MY interests, so as a politician, why should I support him?

Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Yes but embryonic stem cell research is so expensive that if a University cannot afford to conduct it, the money needs to come from somewhere that can. Because public donations are already factored into said University's budget, and the State's education fund cannot possibly squeeze out the extra dough for this important scientific research, the money must come from the Feds. It's the only way to get the research off the ground in a timely manner. If the research was no so important to the American people (such as brain damaged people like my older brother) then this wouldn't be an issue.

Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Again, same as above. The money has to come from somewhere. The government by the people and for the people. The research is too important to NOT fund.

Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Well he just doesn't believe the Government should give aid abroad anyway. I don't care if it isn't in the Constitution. Again, different times call for a different way of looking at things. In 1789, we wouldn't have even thought of giving aid to a foreign country with tax payer money. But now that we can, why the hell not? Now I can see why we shouldn't give aid to foreign Governments. That's why I think that our foreign aid should go to foreign non-profits.

Don't ask, don't tell is a decent policy for gays in army. (Jun 2007)

I don't know how rampant homophobia is in the the army so I wouldn't know if it was right or wrong.

Different times from the early '90s. One cannot say that's it's a good or bad policy without having any knowledge of the attitudes about gays in the army itself. I know of a few isolated incidents of gays in the army (openly) and their peers had no problems with it. It was the superiors of their supervisors that had a problem with it. I think it's time to overturn this policy if it is indeed, a non-issue anymore (it should at least be reviewed closely). But I think "dishonorable discharge" for homosexuals is quite insulting when one considers the fact that when you get too fat to do your job in the army, you receive an "honorable discharge."

Gender-equal pay violates idea of voluntary contract. (Dec 1987)

I see a small problem here, but it's the same as minimum wage problem. The answer to this problem is unionising.

And the problem is that you can't convince every employee in a given workplace to unionize. In fact, there is such a stigma attached to unions, that in this day and age, you can't even convince a majority of the workforce to unionize. Different times.

Rights belong only to individuals, not collective groups. (Dec 1987)

So your rights belong to someone else? Would you really want the head of a group to dictate your rights?

That is just fear mongering. Just because a group CAN have rights, does not mean that my rights are going to be dictating by said group. Individuals do have rights, but groups can have rights too. Take unions for example, the employees in the union are a collective group that that rights of their own, while also protecting the rights of the individual employee.

Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

Did he vote YES because of his beliefs or because it involved tax payer money. His gay and civil rights voting record is appalling (in my opinion). And this just seems like one more vote against gays in his already less than stellar voting record (when it comes to homosexual issues).

My main issue with this one is the use of the word BAN.

Present scientific facts that support creationism. (Sep 2007)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

NOT presenting scientific facts that support creationism involved using tax payers' money? We should present scientific facts that support creationism because it wouldn't be at the cost of tax payer money? I'm sorry I don't understand. I was under the impression that this was just ideological.

Tax-credited programs for Christian schooling. (Sep 2007)

They're not public schools. Anything that helps reduce taxes for anyone is good.

But I call this Government sponsored Religion. If people want their kids to have a Christian education, they should fork over the money themselves and pay for Christian and Catholic education. And what about Muslim or Jewish educations, would they not get tax-credits too? It's a slippery slope to give tax-credits for religious schooling.

Voted NO on $84 million in grants for Black and Hispanic colleges. (Mar 2006)

It involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

But these tax payers' are also can't afford to go to college. If a student cannot afford to go to college but CAN get it otherwise, I believe they should be awarded some Fed cash. Black and Hispanic college have so little public funding and small enrollment as it is, where are they supposed to get the grant money on their own? Surely SOMETHING can be done.

Voted NO on tax incentives for renewable energy. (Feb 2008)

It probably involved using the tax payers' money & Government has no business outside of defending the country.

I just plain disagree with this one.

Voted YES on scheduling permitting for new oil refineries. (Jun 2006)

Government has no business outside of defending the country. Voting no would have been the wrong stance to take on letting businesses run themselves.

I just disagree.

Scored 14% on Humane Society Scorecard on animal protection. (Jan 2007)

Constitution doesn't protect animals; just people.

That is why animal protection laws are on the State level. I am big on animal rights, and with a score such as 14%, I have no choice but to take issue with that. That means that there were measures FOR animals that he voted against.

I may get to the rest later but right now I don't have time to discuss anymore of the highlighted issues.

Edit: I just took a big dose of FUKITOL and realized that I don't care anymore. I just don't agree with Ron Paul on these issues because I'm not a strict "consitutionalist." Happy?????

^.~

Edited July 25, 2008 by Zepling