this is fuckin ridiculous

[Ladywriter 7,783]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4F_cb9AXk]YouTube - Kathy Castor Town Hall Erupts in Tampa Florida, August 6th, 2009[/ame]

As Rep. Kathy Castor was introduced, the reaction was overwhelmingly against her, with boos and chants of "You work for us." And in the lobby, the counter of Planned Parenthood representatives shouting, "Healthcare Now."

Shortly thereafter, violence erupted, where there were 2-3 big goons came out and started pushing those in line, and roughing up one in the corner (see top left screen) as well as another being put in a choke hold. Directly in front of the gentleman in the plaid type shirt, is one of them in a flower print. (eleven o'clock from the camera phone in the scene.) To right of the phone, another in a white shirt. Keep your eye on him, as he then goes for the choke hold on one of the people.

Deep in the corner of your upper left screen, there's a gentleman in a green shirt, whose is getting roughed up, as these two are pushing others. A police officer enters the seen, (Dark blue uniform, short, and a black officer.) You still see the gentleman getting roughed up. The cop not doing anything. They then let the guy go, as they slam the door shut. Later in the video, you see the officer conversing with the gentleman who got roughed. After a brief description from myself, the cop walks away.

1. the ppl shouting read the bill obviously have not

2. a lotta bald heads and old folks (probably loving their socialist govt medicade) They are a generation of racists closet or otherwise.

3. Intelligent conversation does not involve ignorant ppl screaming right wingnut talking points and fallacies spoon fed to them by Fox news and Rush Limbaugh.

I'm all for protesting and civil disobedience but these courses of action should be taken by ppl who know wtf they are talking about. Nutters following blowhard media talking heads sponsored by big pharma do not know wtf they are talking about. They are sheep that need to be led and hate/fear are powerful uniters.

This isn't about health care. This is about the repugs being the minority after 8 years of ass jacking us all. This is about a black man in the WHITE house.

Protesting and civil disobedience that becomes mob mentality can lead to violence and if prolonged and fed enough, civil war. Civil war will not be tolerated in this country (which is why intelligent Bush haters patiently waited for the election). If shit gets out of control martial law will be declared and then ALL of us are fucked over because of the ignorant minority.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Progress will continue to be a trickle until these racist hate filled baby boomers are all dead and thus out of politics. Too bad the bill doesn't really include asking them how they wanna die

[Ladywriter 7,783]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts5siyBYddM]YouTube - "Close Door - BS - I Pay For Mine - Union Tough" Kathy Castor Town Hall[/ame]

this is supposed to be a meeting

what a joke

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnJyqZgMoNQ]YouTube - Tampa FL, Rep Kathy Castor --Tension at town hall meeting on health reform[/ame]

[Ladywriter 7,783]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct--N3hJfxs]YouTube - Exposing the PR Firms Behind the Fake "Grass Roots" Anti-Healthcare Movement[/ame]

[Ladywriter 7,783]

Right-Wing Turncoat Gives the Inside Scoop on Why Conservatives Are Rampaging Town Halls

“Thursday’s forum/near riot was sponsored by state Rep. Betty Reed, D-Tampa, and the Service Employees International Union, who apparently had hoped to hold something of a pep rally for President Obama’s health care reform proposal,” noted St. Petersburg Times reporter Adam Smith. He continued: “Instead, hundreds of vocal critics turned out, many of them saying they had been spurred on through the Tampa 912 activist group promoted by conservative radio and television personality Glenn Beck. Others had received e-mails from the Hillsborough Republican party that urged people to speak out against the plan and offered talking points to challenge supporters.” Such “mobs” have been denounced in recent days by Democratic lawmakers, while journalists like MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow have revealed the corporate interests and Republican operatives that bankroll and organize these town hall disruptions.

I think I know what happened to him, Gingrich and the rest: They can't compute that their white man-led conservative revolution is dead. They can't reconcile their idea of themselves with the fact that white men like them don't run the country any more -- and never will again. To them the black president is leading a column of the "other" into their promised land. Gays, immigrants, blacks, progressives, even a female Hispanic appointed to the Supreme Court... for them this is the Apocalypse.

The Lobbyist-run Groups "Americans for Prosperity " and "FreedomWorks/ Dick Armey-Orchestrated Memo:

Here is a leaked excerpt from the folks organizing the intimidation campaign:

- Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: "Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington."

- Be Disruptive Early And Often: "You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early."

- Try To "Rattle Him," Not Have An Intelligent Debate: "The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions."

[slippers 3,168]

how could screaming and howling consider as their opinions and rights? what if they bring their guns to those meetings X_X someone could get seriously hurt as they have already threatened to kill and are acting more and more violently each time.

[gokuDX7 2,871]

Since we're talking about sheep look at the democrats rushing to their blogs and forums posting how crazy anyone is for not accepting the health reform bill calling them wingnuts or leftwings..etc. I think both sides are way out of line and equally at fault for what's been going on. More so the media though. One station will say one thing that appeals to democrats then another will say something that appeals to republicans and then we have this huge cluster fuck over who's right. The simple fact is no one, not even congress, has sat down and read the bill from front to back. So it's understandable that people are voicing their opinions so strongly. They simply don't want to run into another patriot act like situation we're congress just signs a bill in.

PS. What happened to your last thread that I posted in? It magically disappeared . You wouldn't be trying to muffle the voice of reason would you lol j/k.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

*one of my threads? I think I moved one to a diff form a few days ago.... is that it? I haven't deleted any of my threads.... Which ya talkin bout?*

The media is playing a huge role in all of this as is the way these stories are covered. They did it with Bush they're doing it w Obama and they will do it as long as people with opinions exist. The politicians, meh ........ Again we're dealing w/ news coverage cuz lets be honest and how often do you watch the senate channel? I watch it myself when a bill I give a fuck about is being discussed so that I may see and hear different senators arguments for or against. I prefer to chose who to love or hate based on how they reach me as an intelligent person.

slippers concerns about a gun at one of these open to the public meetings is a genuine concern we should all share. This country has seen some fucked up shooting bullshit going on lately. We all can name 3 off the top of our heads and the first one was a straight up assassination by a religious nutter; you know I'm talking about Tiller. Then more nutters even buying shit from previous nutters places killing some more folks. I'm extremely worried "going postal" is a fad that more ppl are going to participate in, willingly or not.

The bottom line is people are fuckin scared yo. They don't really have a reason to be cuz nothin super (Bush pissed on our rights and the law)bad is going on (personally I think this admin has taken its shit WAY too lightly but whatever...) nobody is going to die or be destroyed because Obama is our president. Unfortunately these people are stuck in a morality lag. They don't think everyone should drink from the same fountain. Subconsciously or not its narcissistic behavior and when you combine that with other disorders (like delusional disorders that lead to killing/enslaving people) you get nutters.

[gokuDX7 2,871]

*one of my threads? I think I moved one to a diff form a few days ago.... is that it? I haven't deleted any of my threads.... Which ya talkin bout?*

The media is playing a huge role in all of this as is the way these stories are covered. They did it with Bush they're doing it w Obama and they will do it as long as people with opinions exist. The politicians, meh ........ Again we're dealing w/ news coverage cuz lets be honest and how often do you watch the senate channel? I watch it myself when a bill I give a fuck about is being discussed so that I may see and hear different senators arguments for or against. I prefer to chose who to love or hate based on how they reach me as an intelligent person.

slippers concerns about a gun at one of these open to the public meetings is a genuine concern we should all share. This country has seen some fucked up shooting bullshit going on lately. We all can name 3 off the top of our heads and the first one was a straight up assassination by a religious nutter; you know I'm talking about Tiller. Then more nutters even buying shit from previous nutters places killing some more folks. I'm extremely worried "going postal" is a fad that more ppl are going to participate in, willingly or not.

The bottom line is people are fuckin scared yo. They don't really have a reason to be cuz nothin super (Bush pissed on our rights and the law)bad is going on (personally I think this admin has taken its shit WAY too lightly but whatever...) nobody is going to die or be destroyed because Obama is our president. Unfortunately these people are stuck in a morality lag. They don't think everyone should drink from the same fountain. Subconsciously or not its narcissistic behavior and when you combine that with other disorders (like delusional disorders that lead to killing/enslaving people) you get nutters.

no idea what happened to the post you started. It's gone. Searching for my name doesnt even pull it up.

The bottom line isn't just that people are scared of what could be inside the bill (although they should be since Obama is acting as the people's champ similar to how Bush did on his first year in office). They're also scared of what the repructions might be for people that already have health care through a company or that have paid for out of their own pocket. There's loads of information packed in the bill that no one has covered on the news or even read. Loads of minor details that could cause great problems for the nation later on down the road if congress doesn't take this shit seriously. Bills like this that effect the nation really need to be looked at with a fine tooth comb. I almost wish they forced each member of congress to take 30 or so chapters and read it at home then come in and discuss what they read with the other members. Sure it would take a long time but at least our money would be going to good use in staid of them just signing anything and everything that will please their party.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

have you joined downsize dc's Read the Bills campaign? Its just what it sounds like. http://www.downsizedc.org/

still dunno what post yer talkin about but ya can rest assured if I want to silence someone I just ban them

[Ladywriter 7,783]

....

1. MYTH: Health care reform would result in the greatest

expansion of abortion since Roe v. Wade.

REALITY: Currently, the majority of plans already cover basic

reproductive health care, including abortion care. In fact, more

than 86 percent of employer-based insurance plans cover abortion

care. That's why anti-choice groups are working so hard to strip

reproductive health from health care reform -- in order to strip

women of coverage they currently have.

****************************************

2. MYTH: Taxpayer money would be used to pay for abortions in

the public plan.

REALITY: Opponents of reproductive health care are trying to

confuse people into thinking that the public plan is a

government-funded health plan like Medicaid or Medicare -- it is

not. The public health insurance plan would operate like any

private insurance plan would. It would be funded and paid for by

private individual premiums, in the same way a private insurance

plan is. Therefore, there is no reason to treat any coverage

issue, including abortion coverage, differently in the public

health insurance plan than in private plans.

****************************************

3. MYTH: Health care reform will "mandate" abortion coverage.

REALITY: Nothing in any of the current health care reform bills

mandates abortion coverage -- or any other type of health care

service. Opponents of women's health and health care reform are

trying to hijack health care reform to push for unprecedented

prohibitions on abortion coverage in the private marketplace.

****************************************

Women in America have the most to gain and also the most to lose

from health care reform. After all, women are the largest

providers of health care, users of health care, and purchasers

of health care, and women make the majority of the health care

decisions for their families. And if our opponents have their

way, women could be left worse off after health care reform, by

losing access to health care and to their provider of choice.

Health care reform is an important goal -- but it can't come at

the expense of women's health. As the leading provider of

contraception and other reproductive health care in America,

Planned Parenthood will continue to stand up for the health of

women and their families.

You can do your part to set the record straight on health care

reform by writing a letter to the editor of your local paper, or

simply by talking with friends, family, or co-workers. It's

critical that we all set the record straight and educate others

about women's health and community providers like Planned

Parenthood.

Stay tuned for ways you can get involved online and in your

local community -- and, once again, thank you for standing with

us at this crucial time for women's health.

Sincerely,

Cecile Richards, President

Planned Parenthood Federation of America

[gokuDX7 2,871]

have you joined downsize dc's Read the Bills campaign? Its just what it sounds like. http://www.downsizedc.org/

still dunno what post yer talkin about but ya can rest assured if I want to silence someone I just ban them

No nor would I join it. I'm only voicing my opinion on the matter which everyone on both sides seem to be doing.

Again most of these people posting "Q&A" type things are going by what others have said or what they've heard or what they've read from the first 20 pages of the bill. The bill itself isn't as black and white as they make it seem. Do a search for it on google and open up the 1000+ page bill and try and read it. It's enough to give you a head ache from all the contradiction they have it in.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

That damn bill is wrote like the bible. The words "End of Life" are in it, but its doesn't appear to be a mandatory counseling like people say it is, nor does it talk about ending someone's life. If anything, it reads like it helps people take care of medicare funded retirement homes, hospice care and living wills which most people now don't qualify for under medicare.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

reading any bill is tedious the language is old skool, other laws are referenced throughout etc.

The read the bills campaign is a good idea as many members of congress only read the shit that is under 100 pages thus railroading the persons they are elected to represent out of lazy ignorance. I don't agree w every position Downsize DC takes but I like to know what both sides of the isle are saying; most mainstream media is slanted one way or another so if ya wanna know everything you have to listen to both sides.

The primary reason for this thread is what is going on at these town halls. Fake grassroots groups inflaming ignorant people and encouraging mob behavior. Shouting down reps so there can be NO discussion is not helping. Truths cannot be told, fence sitters don't get the info they need to make an intelligent and informed decision. Such behaviors interfere with freedom of assembly, they've been turning violent.

With all the nuttery going on as of late I am concerned someone will end up dead at one of these meetings making further meetings a bad idea. When properly educating and informing ppl becomes a bad idea we get a repeat of the Bush years. We voted out the racist/bigot party out of the majority and they're pissed. Too fucking bad. If they weren't obsolete and stuck in the dark ages they wouldn't be a ever shrinking minority.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlkOx3v-uCo]YouTube - Wayne's World We Fear Change[/ame]

[Sledgstone 8,672]

We fear change.

X'D

[gokuDX7 2,871]

reading any bill is tedious the language is old skool, other laws are referenced throughout etc.

The read the bills campaign is a good idea as many members of congress only read the shit that is under 100 pages thus railroading the persons they are elected to represent out of lazy ignorance. I don't agree w every position Downsize DC takes but I like to know what both sides of the isle are saying; most mainstream media is slanted one way or another so if ya wanna know everything you have to listen to both sides.

The primary reason for this thread is what is going on at these town halls. Fake grassroots groups inflaming ignorant people and encouraging mob behavior. Shouting down reps so there can be NO discussion is not helping. Truths cannot be told, fence sitters don't get the info they need to make an intelligent and informed decision. Such behaviors interfere with freedom of assembly, they've been turning violent.

With all the nuttery going on as of late I am concerned someone will end up dead at one of these meetings making further meetings a bad idea. When properly educating and informing ppl becomes a bad idea we get a repeat of the Bush years. We voted out the racist/bigot party out of the majority and they're pissed. Too fucking bad. If they weren't obsolete and stuck in the dark ages they wouldn't be a ever shrinking minority.

YouTube - Wayne's World We Fear Change

I agree, the town hall riots are out of line but this isn't anything new. People act this way regardless of which side of the political fence their on because they fell their getting ignored. The only thing you can do to combat it is give them an equal opportunity to speak and tear gas em .

[Ladywriter 7,783]

here we go...

The White House, Washington

Dear Friend,

Anyone that's watched the news in the past few days knows that health insurance reform is a hot topic -- and that rumors and scare tactics have only increased as more people engage with the issue. Given a lot of the outrageous claims floating around, it's time to make sure everyone knows the facts about the security and stability you get with health insurance reform.

That's why we've launched a new online resource -- WhiteHouse.gov/RealityCheck [ http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/?e=10&ref=text ] -- to help you separate fact from fiction and share the truth about health insurance reform. Here's a few of the reality check videos you can find on the site:

* CEA Chair Christina Romer details how health insurance reform will impact small businesses [ http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/21/?e=10&ref=text3 ].

* Domestic Policy Council Director Melody Barnes tackles a nasty rumor about euthanasia [ http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/7/?e=10&ref=text4 ] and clearly describes how reform helps families.

* Matt Flavin, the White House's Director of Veterans and Wounded Warrior Policy, clears the air about Veteran's benefits [ http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/6/?e=10&ref=text5 ].

* Kavita Patel, M.D., a doctor serving in the White House's Office of Public Engagement, explains that health care rationing is happening right now and how reform gives control back to patients and doctors [ http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/4/?e=10&ref=text6 ].

* Bob Kocher, M.D., a doctor serving on the National Economic Council, debunks the myth that health insurance reform will be financed by cutting Medicare benefits [ http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/31/?e=10&ref=text7 ].

There's more information and a number of online tools you can use to spread the truth among your family, friends and other social networks. Take a look:

Health Insurance Reform Reality Check [ http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/?e=10&ref=image ]

We knew going into this effort that accomplishing comprehensive health insurance reform wasn't going to be easy. Achieving real change never is. The entrenched interests that benefit from the status quo always use their influence in Washington to try and keep things just as they are.

But don't be misled. We know the status quo is unsustainable. If we do nothing, millions more Americans will be denied insurance because of pre-existing conditions, or see their coverage suddenly dropped if they become seriously ill. Out-of-pocket expenses will continue to soar, and more and more families and businesses will be forced to deal with health insurance costs they can't afford.

That's the reality.

Americans deserve better. You deserve a health care system that works as well for you as it does for the status quo; one you can depend on -- that won't deny you coverage when you need it most or charge you crippling out-of-pocket co-pays. Health insurance reform means guaranteeing the health care security and stability you deserve.

President Barack Obama promised he'd bring change to Washington and fix our broken, unsustainable health insurance system. You can help deliver that change. Visit WhiteHouse.gov/RealityCheck, get the facts and spread the truth. [ http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/?e=10&ref=text2 ] The stakes are just too high to do nothing.

Thank you,

David

David Axelrod

Senior Advisor to the President

[gokuDX7 2,871]

I watched a few of the videos but couldn't find a clear definitive answer to this question I've been wondering. If I was to keep my current insurance that my company pays for via my pay check, would I still have to pay for this health care reform (aka. national health care) via taxes? A few of the videos tippy toed around this question. I could see this being good if you have the lowest insurance possible that doesn't cover enough stuff but for someone like me who has next to the highest thanks to my company, it would be extremely stupid to be paying for two insurances at the same time when I'll only be using one.

This also brings up the issue of monopolies. If people jump on the government run health care system, which most will, then what's stopping the government from dominating the market and killing all competition? At some point the Government will have complete control over your health care there's no question about that. Giving the government to much power is a bad thing no matter how much you look at it, even if this is meant for good and even if they keep claiming they wont do anything bad.

[Ladywriter 7,783]

unless you make over 200G a year you will not be paying for it in taxes

if you have insurance your happy with keep it

the insurance co's need a low cost competitor (like any other business) to drive prices down and keep them there, we're just at the point where the only organization willing to do it is the govt

[gokuDX7 2,871]

Where did you come up with that 200G a year? Someone else posted something similar on digg and when I asked he couldn't point me to the bill page but in staid called me a wingnut for not just accepting what he posted. lol God I love online democrats. I suspect that 200G is just another proposal that congress was thinking about. They actually have several ideas on how to pay for this crap bill.

Right now the most current that I've heard about is having company's and self employed pay the bigger part of it. Company's already offering private insurance will be taxed 6%-7% and company's not offering private insurance will be taxed 8%. People employed will get insurance via their company. Which means if your company offers private and public health care you will have a different paycheck cut depending on which you choose.

People looking to buy a plan with national healthcare will be expected to pay out of their pockets similar to private insurance.

As proposed, the maximum monthly Health Care for America premium would be $70 for an individual, $140 for a couple, $130 for a single-parent family, and $200 for all other families. For those enrolled in the plan at their place of work, anyone whose income was below 200% of the poverty level (about $10,000 for an individual and $20,000 for a family of four ) would pay no additional premiums. The plan would also offer extensive, but so far unspecified, assistance to enrollees to help them afford coverage. Health Care for America coverage would be continuous and guaranteed. Once enrolled, individuals or families would remain covered unless they become covered by a qualified private insurance plan through their employer.

That makes more sense then charging just the people making over 200G a year lol.

Another thing to point out that many are overlooking. On page 167 of the bill it mentions that if you don't have insurance either with the government or with a private insurance company you will be taxed 2.5% of your annual income. So when Obama says everyone will have insurance he's not kidding lol. Get it or we tax your lights out bitch!

[Ladywriter 7,783]

My understanding is that the primary way of financing the govt insurance will be via ending the Bush tax cuts for that high tax bracket. Its not brand new legislation its repealing old legislation that is, quite frankly unfair. The cuts shifted the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class. Its like a pirate with a mountain of dirt not wanting to give poor old Jack Sparrow enough to fill his jar

Having ppl carry insurance on themselves however minimal will reduce the cost of things like uninsured idiots using the ER as a primary care doctor and then leaving the taxpayers to foot the bill. ex: sore throat patient X to Dr Bob office visit $40, visit to ER for same diagnosis and Rx $300+

Its better for patient X to spend 20$ a mo on insurance (and get personally responsible for taking care of themselves) then be hit with a hospital bill for hundreds or thousands of dollars that only deepens their financial problems.

This bill, like the climate bill... Yep I support(ed) both even though I believe they are way way way too weak. So you're probably wondering; if I don't think these pieces of legislation are all good why the hell would I back them? The answer is small victories, baby steps. We aren't going to get the sweeping change we desperately need in an eye blink. Like Garth many people fear change. Scare the ignorant and you get "the govt is gonna kill grandma" screaming idiot mentality at these town halls brought to you by the wealthy that don't give a fuck about anything but their portfolio.

Like the climate bill this bill is a baby step in the right direction and that is why I will support it. Its the first stepping stone on a better path.

[gokuDX7 2,871]

I don't think this is a baby step at all. I think this is one huge wrong step lol. They need to re-think the bill and come up with a less extreme way of doing things.

[Sledgstone 8,672]

Lets follow DX's example and prepare for the upcoming revolution... *loads guns*

[Ladywriter 7,783]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show#32424387

long one...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show#32437249

[gokuDX7 2,871]

White House to drop 'public option' - Yahoo http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

Edited August 17, 2009 by gokuDX7

[Ladywriter 7,783]

"All I'm saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform," the president told a town hall-style audience in Grand Junction, Colo., on Saturday. "This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it."

now we ~officially~ have a repeat of the climate bill

limp dick legislation aint what I voted for

Proposals for creation of nonprofit cooperative ventures have emerged as an alternative, but so far, neither liberals nor conservatives have shown great interest.

because its a limp dick duh

"Leaving private insurance companies the job of controlling the costs of health care is like making a pyromaniac the fire chief," said Rep., Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y.

no duh